Curse

Lonesamurai · Jul 30, 2007, 10:35 AM // 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Pssh, you can't have failed at a race that hasn't ended. Besides, WoW has over 50% of the online RPG market - that means all other games are failing when compared to it. This is a testament to several factors, and it doesn't necessarily mean WoW is that much better than all the other games on the market. What it means is Blizzard knows how to make a game that their target audience wants, and they know how to market it well.

Arenanet is doing just fine for this being their first game (franchise). NCsoft is doing quite well, actually. Right behind WoW in the online RPG market is Lineage and Lineage II, believe it or not. With Guild Wars on their belt, also, they have roughly 25-30% of the market. That's not bad at all.

What??? where are you getting your numbers?

And yes, i do know mine thank you very much and as the guild Wars Community rep for The Sanitarium i'm getting nothing from NCSoft and ANet (sorry martin, but its true) and I'm doing all the work for the show myself...

Hwever, i also know that Blizzard do an outhouse worth of marketting compared to the smattering of odd ads we see for GW and other NCSoft games...

Oh and as of last weeks figures, lineage currently has 24million active players, 12million active players in Lineage 2, WoW has 9.2 million players, and CoH/V has 4million odd players to name a few... 50% of the market? how in the hell can you lump that all in together

arcanemacabre · Jul 30, 2007, 10:43 AM // 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

Oh and as of last weeks figures, lineage currently has 24million active players, 12million active players in Lineage 2, WoW has 9.2 million players, and CoH/V has 4million odd players to name a few... 50% of the market? how in the hell can you lump that all in together

Whoa whoa whoa! Where are you getting your numbers!? Here, check this site out: http://www.mmogchart.com/

According to that Lineage never had more than 3.5mil subscribers at any point in time, and it was on a severe downslope (hitting 1.5mil last year). While WoW was on a severe upslope hitting nearly 7mil at that same time. Yes, WoW has at least 50% of the market.

Lonesamurai · Jul 30, 2007, 10:48 AM // 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Whoa whoa whoa! Where are you getting your numbers!? Here, check this site out: http://www.mmogchart.com/

According to that Lineage never had more than 3.5mil subscribers at any point in time, and it was on a severe downslope (hitting 1.5mil last year). While WoW was on a severe upslope hitting nearly 7mil at that same time. Yes, WoW has at least 50% of the market.

updated last year...

and thats were i leave the conversation til you get reliable information that destroys the press releases i have on my desk at home

arcanemacabre · Jul 30, 2007, 10:49 AM // 10:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

updated last year...

and thats were i leave the conversation til you get reliable information that destroys the press releases i have on my desk at home

Ok... so you're saying that Lineage somehow gained 20mil subscribers since last year???

And these magic press releases would only be on paper, huh? Were these made before the time of the internet?

Lonesamurai · Jul 30, 2007, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Ok... so you're saying that Lineage somehow gained 20mil subscribers since last year???

And these magic press releases would only be on paper, huh? Were these made before the time of the internet?

No, those that i'm allowed to publish i publish on the station website, and you can check them out over at http://forum.sanitarium.fm for more information

Some are marked, "internal press release" and are under NDA (and I posted a couple by accident and got a slap on the wrist for it), those that are posted as just "Press Release" I know put ont he station forum

arcanemacabre · Jul 30, 2007, 10:58 AM // 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

No, those that i'm allowed to publish i publish on the station website, and you can check them out over at http://forum.sanitarium.fm for more information

Some are marked, "internal press release" and are under NDA (and I posted a couple by accident and got a slap on the wrist for it), those that are posted as just "Press Release" I know put ont he station forum

Not gonna fish - but you seriously believe 24 million current subscribers for Lineage!? Show me proof, since that is seriously unbelievable. 24 million... subscribers... I would believe $24 million in revenue, but not total customers.

Etta · Jul 30, 2007, 11:13 AM // 11:13

Haha, take it easy you two, the kids are watching. This somehow reminded me of Sonic VS Mario from the '90s. I'm sure you both likes GW as much as sunday roast, so what's the point of arguing over which game has a bigger kahuna? . So kiss and make-up already.

Lonesamurai · Jul 30, 2007, 11:19 AM // 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etta

Haha, take it easy you two, the kids are watching. This somehow reminded me of Sonic VS Mario from the '90s. I'm sure you both likes GW as much as sunday roast, so what's the point of arguing over which game has a bigger kahuna? . So kiss and make-up already.

oh, no, not at all...

as i stated, GW has been totally let down by the total lack of marketting and PR push compared to WoW...

hell, WoW had TV ads, thats something i haven't seen since Final Fantasy 8 back in 1998 (apart from nintendo titles of course, the Wii gets uber TV time here in the UK), and if GW had half the ad support that EvE online and WoW get on websites, it would do better

Ok, evE has a daily player base of between 20 and 40k players a day, but some are loging in to change skills aswell... if ANet/NCSoft did one Advert click through offering an Epic trial code, they would add player numbers greatly

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

I'm a game journalist too. Hell, everyone CAN BE anything on this forum.

But I'm sure I won't pull things out of thin air.

if your serious, jump over to my stations site, i'm recruiting community rep's right now

-Loki- · Jul 30, 2007, 11:27 AM // 11:27

Singstar gets TV ads in Australia. Yes, Australian TV sucks.

Etta · Jul 30, 2007, 11:47 AM // 11:47

I rather like GW where it is right now, popular 2nd choice (or 3rd, 4th whatever), an underdog if you may. Just think of WOW as a pop music or blockbuster movie and GW as alternative rock or cult classic movie. Keep it underground man! Ah well, I'll leave you 2 alone now.

Lonesamurai · Jul 30, 2007, 11:51 AM // 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etta

I rather like GW where it is right now, popular 2nd choice (or 3rd, 4th whatever), an underdog if you may. Just think of WOW as a pop music or blockbuster movie and GW as alternative rock or cult classic movie. Keep it underground man! Ah well, I'll leave you 2 alone now.

Guild Wars to me is the cult movie like The Matrix, found by most too late to see it on the big screen

Zappa · Jul 30, 2007, 01:04 PM // 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeowulfKamdas

GWG: So how awesome is Guild Wars?
ANet: Sooo Awesome

This explains a LOT. I couldn't have said better.

Since I bothered myself to reply, and believe me, replying in Guru is a very hard and boring chore, I might as well mention, once again, what would be another "good" flaw of guild wars, which is the fact that they are trying to put us through some gimmick to be able to get lore-related quests.

"Blablabla there's no problem, get a credit card, we all now everyone can get credit cards and buy online, we all know everyone has lots of money and everyone can buy online when they want, everyone is just being stubborn, etc etc etc..."

They are wrong. The game story SHOULDN'T be re-sold. I hope it goes wrong in every aspect.
Blizzard, on the other hand, doesn't sell quests. Yes, in Wow, there are also exclusive 'items', like a new mount that is supposed to be released in the trading card game, or novelty pets from mags, etc, but NOT STORY RELATED QUESTS. Imagine if they came up now with something like:

"If you want to know what happened to Thrall and the Horde, buy this or that. Remember you have limited time. If you don't do this you will NEVER KNOW!"

That's what they did to guild wars and it disgusts me.

DreamRunner · Jul 30, 2007, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaidax

This is what happens when you bring over false information - people jump on that instantly and divert the thread to that point... That is natural forum behavior and it is a good one, actually, as it keeps BS in check.

There is no permament story built in in WoW. It is a world which advances slowly (content patches) forward revealing more and more information over time. It started as a clean warcraft world with a backup lore and history and slowly advanced forward each content patch - Deathwing plots, Scourge invasion, Dark Portal re-opening, Illidan and Sargeras struggle and it will go on (Nightmare Realm, Lich King, Maelstrom, Creators). Story slowly unfolds and dungeons, while providing players with an option to participate in key events - do not really push the story forward for most.

Dungeons look major and you base your arguement around people speding 24/7 in dugeons, but it is not true - most game time is spent outside in persistent world and it is majorly a persistent world player contacts and match-ups that allow you to go to those dungeons in the first place!

That was an ancient times before LFG channel and tool came to be. Nowadays it is pointless to LFG in cities and people are much more spread outside because of that. Also bliz made a smart move intorducing Shattarath city with portals to other major cities, but without Auction House - it made people more spreaded through out all the cities and regions now.

Also you could always choose med-high populated servers as well... no one takes that right away from you.

This statement has some true points and some problematic ones. While theoretically it is easier to find people to play with - in reality it requires you to be rooted to an outpost to do so. Multi-server district system allows you to dig other servers for players easily, but it has a side effect - those districts are not persistant as well.

If you find a player and play around with him - there is a good chance you will simply never encounter him again. I find this to be a huge disadvantage, as you can't really make long term in-game friendship this way. WoW server setup with persistent world on the other hand is really playe friendly in that, as is actually one big district, thus making specific people much easier to find and play with again.

Yes GW definately has maintenence, it is there and it is done quetly without layers noticing it. That is the adantage of non-persistent world - you can just close a server for maintenence and others will back it up with their districts...

Such thing is hard to do in persistent world servers.

Because the world is round and has many timezones maybe? You can't satisfy all... Besides, current maintenance bliz does is not always several hours of downtime like it was previously.

Past is past... present is present... Yes there were issues, but bliz got over them and this is a very big plus for them in my book.

-------------------------

You know, I see you using a lot of "was" "were" had" and other past time words... I think you should get updated a bit - a lot of disinformation spread about WoW faults is based on fact those faults were true a year+ ago - game has changed and you really can't talk aboit i based off the year old experience of it...

What false information did I bring? So far, I have not presented any false information. If I did, then point it out to me. But its your own fault if you did not read my post correctly.

Dungeons such as MC\BWL\ Onxyias Lair, when you defeat major characters in the WoW lore seems pretty damn major to me. Now when the Expansion, you defeat characters like Illidan, who also had a direct story with WC3:Frozen throne.

You mean pay to move your character to a higher populated server? You start another character on another server so I can play?

You say, "Some true points" But I wonder what point weren't true. So you are trying to say that WoW is more open that GW is? But it doesn't matter about if the multi-server districts aren't persistent because do you honestly think that if they weren't enough players in a district to make a 2nd, then you wouldn't be able to play? But then again, you got the party feature in which GW has, which shows the players name, district and reason for trade\party, whatever.

What do you mean, you won't ever meet him again? You got a friend list in which you can contact the player, and just because you meet someone there in a persistent world, doesnt mean he will be there again. You are making a far to subjective point and makes a useless point.

So blizzard got over them after the game has been out for 1 and 1\2 years? Sounds like a slow learner. But blizzard doesn't have all the world timezones, you think that Europe servers are the in the U.S? As well as the ones in Asia? All blizzard has the worry about is the U.S and Australia\NZ and it seems like that blizzard likes to play favorites.

Sure I can, see me now? I can discriminate as much of WoW in which the experience I had with for a long time. And the main points I've made is still with WoW on having divided servers.

Oh yeh and troll me more...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

..And likewise, if you were to praise a part of the game, you praise the whole game. That leads me to this. You cannot say "you're connected to the world when you play Guild Wars" if it can only be applied to PvP. That's all I'm saying on this.

Yeah it is, actually. It's pretty pointless to be fully connected to the world if there's no one to play with, or if it's incredibly hard to find people to play with. If I'm able to play with the whole world in the game, cool. But it's much more important (to me anyways) just to find people for a quest or dungeon.

Outposts.
Instanced.
No global party search.

It's much more harder finding people in Guild Wars than WoW.

Fine, if you don't want to say anything more on it, but I can say it when there are international districts that are in PvE too. It isn't just PvP only.

But it would be pretty pointless if you got a huge amount of people playing the game, but can't connect to anyone. That would be a shame wouldn't it? If you limit amount of people you are connecting with or playing with, then population doesn't really matter. Its more important to me with connecting because you are not only limited to the amount of people you are playing with.

But that depends on the server, yes? I'll be interested in people who play on a (Low) population server will say about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

DreamRunner is redefining the term "strawman argument." Just because one game has one little teeny-tiny feature that another doesn't have doesn't mean the entire freaking game is a failure. I also suggest you actually play World of Warcraft a decent amount (level 40, at the least) before you judge it, as the rest of the posters (i.e. Bryant, Gaidax, and myself) have obviously had experience. I just hit my first lv. 70 two days ago.

On the topic of WoW on television...WoW actually had a spot tonight on CBS Sports showing the WoW Arena Championship Finals.

And yet there has not been such press about Guild Wars, which everyone on these forums claims Guild Wars to be the "superior PvP game," and WoW to have horrible PvP. Those people base WoW PvP on 1v1, which, as in Guild Wars, is not fair. World of Warcraft is balanced around 5v5 and at maximum level. And yes, almost every possible class spec has a role in Arena PvP.

Not even Guild Wars fanatics can deny the press WoW receives. It receives so much press for a reason...

Whole game as a failure? I never said that WoW was a failure. I said I like GW "better" because of that *tiny feature* as you say. There is a difference you know. But for the record, I did play WoW a decent amount, probably more than you. I had 3 level 60s and a level 40. I also did play burning crusade a little bit. I played from open beta to 1.9. It was really the warlocks worse time up to patch 1.8, but I'm sure you know this, since you are as you say "more experienced".

So a game gets more of the public eye and its a better PvP game? Hah. I'm sure a lot of pop music artists make better music because pop music is more "popular".

WoW receives a lot of press because its the largest MMO in the U.S. It had a boost of fans because it was made by Blizzard. It also appeals to a large audience in which the cartoony looks might be liked by a larger amount of people.

Miral · Jul 31, 2007, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

So a game gets more of the public eye and its a better PvP game? Hah. I'm sure a lot of pop music artists make better music because pop music is more "popular".

I think you have your logic a bit backwards... pop music is more popular because it has better music. that would be more applicable logic.

Vermilion · Jul 31, 2007, 12:48 AM // 00:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

And yet there has not been such press about Guild Wars, which everyone on these forums claims Guild Wars to be the "superior PvP game," and WoW to have horrible PvP. Those people base WoW PvP on 1v1, which, as in Guild Wars, is not fair. World of Warcraft is balanced around 5v5 and at maximum level. And yes, almost every possible class spec has a role in Arena PvP.

...Which is sad. (The first part

)

Btw, why is this thread even still open? -.- WoW vs GW threads are worse than PvE vs PvP threads.

Different strokes for different folks!

Nevin · Jul 31, 2007, 01:00 AM // 01:00

"Guildwars really do dominate WoW..."

Is that hood talk?

Bryant Again · Jul 31, 2007, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

Oh yeh and troll me more...

He's actually being very considerate and polite. It would be nice of you to show the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

What do you mean, you won't ever meet him again? You got a friend list in which you can contact the player...

Not people you party with, per se, but just any random person. For instance: There's this Tauren guy who I danced with at level 12, and I kept running into him when I was questing, and now whenever I see him, I dance with him (I'm Alliance, btw). In Guild Wars, the chance of meeting someone familiar is very slim, since a large majority of the time you're not in an outpost - so you don't "bump into" anyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

...and just because you meet someone there in a persistent world, doesnt mean he will be there again.

That's obvious. His point was that it's much more likely to run into someone familiar in WoW than it is to run into someone familiar in Guild Wars.

...Now that I think about it, I've *never* partied with the same person twice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

Fine, if you don't want to say anything more on it, but I can say it when there are international districts that are in PvE too. It isn't just PvP only.

It's not that I don't want to say anything more about it, there's nothing TO say about it.

And how many people are ever *IN* an International District for a mission? I'd say about zero to two, excluding roleplayers and bots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

But it would be pretty pointless if you got a huge amount of people playing the game, but can't connect to anyone. That would be a shame wouldn't it?

This sounds anti-Guild Wars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

If you limit amount of people you are connecting with or playing with, then population doesn't really matter.

Population ALWAYS matters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

Its more important to me with connecting because you are not only limited to the amount of people you are playing with.

...And this sounds pro-WoW.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

But that depends on the server, yes? I'll be interested in people who play on a (Low) population server will say about it.

How 'bout I just tell you right now, since half of my characters are on a low server: We're much more connected, since there's so few of us. It works out better than you'd think. But then again, experiences vary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

So a game gets more of the public eye and its a better PvP game? Hah. I'm sure a lot of pop music artists make better music because pop music is more "popular".

.....

drago34 · Jul 31, 2007, 06:17 AM // 06:17

This thread is so pointless lol. All this thread has is a bunch of people from both sides pointlessly arguing, since no one is going to change their mind.

Shuuda · Jul 31, 2007, 07:55 AM // 07:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

I think you have your logic a bit backwards... pop music is more popular because it has better music. that would be more applicable logic.

Shall we refer to it as modern pop music then, the most disgraceful noise I've yet to hear?

Quote:

This thread is so pointless lol. All this thread has is a bunch of people from both sides pointlessly arguing, since no one is going to change their mind.

So very agreed, my forum senses tell me that a lock is coming.

bart · Jul 31, 2007, 08:07 AM // 08:07

ohh no its not pointless.. WoW seems to be winning the argument! *Just to add wood to fire*